Un-numbered Examples

[jcorl]

Gentlemen,  You may notice from time to time that sellers advertise late model HScs and other models without any serial numbers on them.   They note that they have been "lunched box" out of the factory and I am sure that story has merit.  The question I have, is how can these examples be legally sold? I placed a call into the BATF and a very nice young lady at their HQ offices told me they could not be transferred under my C&R license nor under an FFL1 license.  Am I missing something here?
 
Jim   

[jcorl]

Just had a reply from the seller on a no serial numbered gun and he tells me the ATF will let you sell am example without a serial number on it.   You just have to note it has no serial number on it.  I am a bit confused as we have a gun manufacture here in my community. He tells me no gun can leave his factory without a serial number on it.  Is the Black River Arms Manufacture confused?
 
Jim

[vlim]

Well, it's simply a matter of dealing with the situation. Manufacturers of modern firearms have no reason to manufacture guns without serial numbers. And the law requires them to.
But old, collectible, guns do exist without serial number. And the fact that the number is lacking on some pistols makes them more collectible. So it is good that there are possibilities to own and collect such guns.
 

[jcorl]

I don't disagee with your position.  It is a case of compliance.  Is the transfer of a non-numbered modern gun, post 1898, legal? 
 
Jim 

[Warbird]

Jim:  GCA'68 requires all manufacturers to serialize firearms produced after the law was passed in 1968.  Prior to that, it was optional.  So what you were told by Black River Arms is correct.  I'm not sure what the requirements would be to transfer an unserialized firearm made prior to that date.  I scanned the regs on the ATF website and couldn't find the answer there.

So if you want to call the ATF again, you might want to rephrase the question and ask HOW do you transfer an unserialized, pre-1968 firearm.  There may also be some issues with Interstate vs Intrastate shipping.  Good luck!

[jcorl]

Alan,
 
I had the same idea.   The shipper wants a serial number.  I just called them.  Looks like a hassel from start to finish.  Life is too short to worry about a single transaction.  There are other fish to fry out there.  I will let this one swim away.  Thanks for scanning the regulations.  Looks like there is pre and post ban laws.  Then another layer of Missouri state law is added in there along with the shipping regulations and home insurance proof of ownership.  If is was a LGS, I would be buying a ticket to VA to meet with those people.  But it is not!
Jim     

[Like_Old_Guns]

It's my understanding that it is legal Federally to transfer a C&R firearm without a serial number.  I see them for sale frequently on GB.  I have not purchased one yet, but it wasn't for lack of trying.  I was chasing a un-numbered CZ27 (not uncommon) not too long ago.  I didn't win them, but was comfortable that it was legal.  I have a C&R, but living in CA, need to also work with an FFL01.  My FFL01 was also comfortable with it legally.  Un-numbered C&R WWII era handguns are not uncommon.

[Duster42]

When I talked to the ATF they told me to list it as NSN in my bound book for that transaction.
He said it was legal as firearms were not required to have s/n's until the passing of the GCA'68 like warbird said.
I have several cz's and P.38's without a s/n.

I have another question about shipping C&R firearms.
Is it legal to ship 2 C&R pistols in the same shipping box?
He ships UPS and is concerned about selling 2 in the same week to the buyer. I think that rule is for new firearms only.